Tresselball Finds A Mate...
First, I think Kirk Ferentz is a very good coach (most of the time) - I need to get that out of the way. But, Marty Mornhinweg (he's the ex-Detroit Lions coach that tried to jedi-mind trick his team by electing to kick the ball to go on defense after winning the coin toss in an OT game) thinks that Ferentz is crazy for his game management at the end of regulation.
Bucks Pros (globally speaking):
- They've finally figured out a way to get some short, high-percentage pass completions for Pryor that's helped open up the running game and other phazes of the passing game.
- They found a solid running game
- No turnovers
- They found a way to win without relying on Pryor to throw the ball (much)
Bucks Cons (again, globally speaking):
- 93 yards of passing (only)
- Never really worked on stretching the field
- OSU had only +22 yards in total offense even though they led in virtually every other offensive stat (Iowa had 3 turnovers to boot)
- Tresselball nearly found another way to LOSE rather than cementing the win (save the "almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades rebuttal)
Was it a win for Ohio State or a battle of Tresselball verses his new best friend, Kirk Ferentz?
Here's how I look at it, the Buckeyes: were playing in front of their home crowd, were +3 in turnovers, had more total yards of offense, had roughly 5 minutes more in ball possession, had fewer penalties, were nearly 3 times more efficient on 3rd down conversions, but STILL needed Iowa to lay down like a beaten dog at the end of regulation in order to survive into overtime. A team that leads in virtually every major stat (especially +3 in turnovers) shouldn't feel lucky just to make it into overtime. I understand "a win is a win", but the apologists have been saying that for the last 3-4 years about Tressel. Had the Bucks been facing slightly better talent, or had they faced an opposing head coach without a temporary lobotomy, the Bucks would have acquired another sad loss to their resume due to ultra conservative coaching (shocking).
I suppose that Tresselball is here to stay for a while longer since we won at least a share of the highly "coveted" and "respected" Big10 title tonight. However, I still think that control freak Tresselball sucks in the greater scheme of college football.
Honestly, we do need to offer many congratulations to the Buckeye players on another Big10 title, it might be less valuable from a global view of college football, but that title means everything to those players and the rest of the league. For that, we don't want to take anything away from them, great job. (Especially considering they were almost "Tresselball'd" out of it.)
BigM - as usual, another salient post & in an effort to not sound too much like a fanboy, I was thinking much the same thing after that game ended ... The Vest almost Tresselball'd the game away but for Kirk's mind-meld collapse into OT. Yikes.
Before I get into it, I join you in congratulating the Buckeye players, they did their best and won the game on the field even though their coach was trying real hard to not lose it.
Now, to the game ... I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing ... was Iowa really, I mean really trying to get to OT with 1 timeout and something like 1:35 left to win the game? Wow. You're spot on when you say with the way the Buckeyes played, there's really no reason (save for The Vest's bonehead game calling) why Iowa should've been close in the 4th quarter nor should it have gone to OT for the win. It was nearly another Buckeye coaching disaster and meltdown. We won't survive another one of those which is why we bitch and moan about The Vest!
I'll only add this observation ... the offensive game plan seemed to uncovered something that worked and as usual, as soon as it did work, The Vest made sure we didn't use it the remainder of the game. I'm talking about that nifty little toss in the flat to Saine that we ran 2-3 times and each time it gained solid yardage. It was there all day if we wanted it but sure as s**t, Tressel never called it when we needed it most. Figures ... why try and win the game on offense when it's only job is to make sure the defense doesn't have to work hard.
Whatever. Congrats to the Bucks for another Big10 title and a long overdue trip to my backyard! Pasadena here I come! I must say I'm worried about facing likely Oregon, they look good right now.
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Thanks for the comments & compliments Jimbo...if the economy were a little better, I'd probably make the trip out to Pasadena for the Rose Bowl!
In regards to your comments, it gets me fired up all over again to think that a major college football coach decided to sit on 1:30+ left of clock w/ a timeout as you stated. Not that I wanted the Bucks to lose...in terms of analysis, I can't understand for the life of me the rational of "waiting" to win. Granted, they get to start on the 20 yard line in OT, BUT SO DOES YOUR OPPONENT, WHICH HAS OWNED YOU IN JUST ABOUT EVERY OFFENSIVE STAT IN THE GAME. At that point in the game, you'd think that any coach in his right mind would treat it like the last 1:35 is their "OT", except they have an advantage (like in real OT in the NFL). If they score, they win. If they don't score, they go to OT and have a chance to win. The point is that Ferentz decision was so "Tressel" its scary, that's the crap that costs you time and time again in big games.
Granted, you might get some detractors they cough up the ball and you lose the game right there, but that's Ok in my book. The object is to try and WIN the damn game, not hope and pray that your defense plays good enough so you don't get scored on and get another chance to score. It's backwards thinking in my book, and by the looks of things, it's backwards in most of the new offensive minded coaches too in College Football.
Go Bucks!
PS- My plead to ControlFreakTress - let go a little bit, hire some REAL offensive coordinators, REAL offensive positing coaches, especially a QB coach. But, it'll never happen!
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Wanna know why those of us here want Tressel either gone or forced to make MAJOR changes on offense?
This article pretty much says it all ... "Thorny victory for OSU"
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=jn-osu111409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I don't know about you Tressel apologists but frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing and reading this kind of criticism of the team I love so much.
The saddest part of the whole damn thing is I mostly agree with what the writer has to say. Don't get your hopes up to high fellow Buckeye fans ... come Jan 1st in Pasadena I fully expect to see my beloved Scarlet and Grey get embarrassed yet again on the national stage.
This has got to stop. Something MUST change.
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I saw some great things in the overtime win against Iowa in the early going . . . I saw a CONTINGENCY PLAY! It's like big M said there were some quick uncovered (or too softly covered, 8 to 10 yards off the receiver is uncovered in my book) passes thrown to Posey and it went good for several yards and i think two conversions on each attempt! Why is this only just now being experimented with NINE WEEKS INTO THE SEASON?!?! This is the kinda thing Tressel is famous for . . . not figuring out what the hell to do on offense till you've already lost the marquee match up to USC or Texas or Miami (Fl) or whoever it is next year. At Ohio State, I would like to think we don't have the time to only realize THREE WEEKS INTO THE SEASON that Pryor should be in the Shotgun or that he should use what's called "look" passes (the uncovered routes, just a quick stop route thrown to the wide out or a bubble screen thrown to a slot guy who is either uncovered or the person covering him is cheating towards the run). These are basic automatics that are in every offense from high school on up EVERY YEAR. Jimmy never seems to get it until it's too late for the Buckeyes BCS chances. I'm just so sick of it. I've said this before if Terrelle Pryor had even a very BASIC but proficient spread offensive coordinator he would DOMINATE the Big Ten with athleticism and simple passes alone. I hate to say this to the almighty SEC trolls but I say it all the time. You think Tim Tebow is good? Add a couple inches on his height drop a tenth or two off his forty, make him right handed and give him an arm and BOOM you have a much faster better more efficient spread QB who can dominate defenses with his legs alone. But people say "yea, its clear he can run but he can't pass!" Anybody can learn to perfect some body position stick routes and curls, some quick out routes or bomb a deep go or post on corners and safeties looking to stop the run. I'm just saying run first and complete big passes off play action or quick out and curl routes second. You can win national championships that way if you have a coordinator or coach that recognizes talent and builds a team around it. And its not like the other pieces aren't there. DeVier Posey is an NFL calibre receiver and Brandon Saine is a top flight SPREAD tailback. I bet you that Jamaal Berry who is quietly wasting away on the bench albeit being well deservedly in Tressel's doghouse for a drug charge before he even got to campus is the BEST thats right I said BEST running back for the system on the team. Jake Stoneburner looks like a demi-god of a physical specimen with speed and size at the tight end spot but you know what? HE IS WASTING AWAY ON THE FIELD! Tight Ends don't release in the Ohio State offense. It's probably WAY too risky with a quarterback that runs a sub 4.4 back there. The Michigan game I'm watching Ohio State win right now doesn't make me better because a play or two here or there going Michigan would win.
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I guess Tressell does not understand what his QB can do more than us. We are far more intelligent than he is. Let's get someone else as why would we want a coach that has won 10 games a year for 5 years and we know far more than him.
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Gee Kevin, you're just so witty and clever that you sure shut me up.
Tell ya what, doofus, when you can mount something, anything resembling a well composed and supported argument then please feel free to add to our forum. Until then, I suggest you go back to sucking your thumb and do a little more reading before wasting our time.
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Wohoo "Kevin" or whatever alias you're using today...you got us, you're right! Afterall, we beat Michigan, Toledo, New Mexico State, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, and barely beat Navy. Wow, we really showed 'em this year!!
We did play tough against the almighty "USC" who lost to Washington, Oregon & Stanford. We also lost a real heartbreaker to Big10 powerhouse Purdue who lost to Michigan State, Minnesota, and others.
I'd sign Tressel to a lifetime contract while he's hot.
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Please Jimbo don't attend the Rose Bowl. Save your seat for someone who is a true fan of Ohio State football. Someone who appreciates going 10-2 in what most people call a rebuilding year. Someone who appreciates beating Michigan every single year. Save the seat for someone who looks at next year and believes a National Title is something that is absolutely attainable.
You don't deserve that seat, and neither do you BigM, I hope you see the disaster that Michigan is because they fired a head coach that most loved and look at where they are. Is that what you guys want? So please, don't go into the Rose Bowl. Someone else deserves that seat.
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My heart goes with Chris Spielman who lost his wife Stephanie to breast cancer this weekend. Stephanie has box seats in the great Horseshoe in the sky.
Now to you YSUBuckeye. Who made you the great arbiter of "true" fandom? What constitutes being a true fan? Why don't you sit down for a few minutes and lay out for us the criteria for being a "true" fan, I'd love to hear it.
Apparently you haven't read a single thing I've written on this blog because if you had, you'd know without me having to point it out that I love Buckeye football. The big difference between you and I is that I'm not apathetic about my beloved team AND I can make a distinction between being a fan of the Scarlet and Grey and NOT being a fan of Jim Tressel. Why is it your kind has such trouble understanding that? Let's be clear. Jim Tressel is NOT the Ohio State Buckeyes. He is the current head coach who is entrusted with the public property that is the Ohio State Buckeye football team. I admire Jim Tressel for being a gentleman and ethical custodian of the game but I disagree with his methods and his obstinate refusal to recognize changes in the fabric of college football.
I think it's safe to say we're ALL fans here, so relax and rest assured you're among fellow fans. However, in case you haven't been paying attention to what is said about our Buckeyes in the media, it is always something like: "Sure Ohio State won another 10 games and a BigTen title and beat it's archival, Michigan and yet another BCS berth and coveted trip to the Rose Bowl. But there is no reason to believe their BCS futility will end this year in yet another high profile embarrassment on national TV." So I ask you, why doesn't that make you angry? Why aren't you writing those guys, instead of wasting our time and attacking us? Take that moral imperiousness and turn it on those guys. Tell them all about how they should be thrilled with 10 wins, 5 straight B10 titles and another Michigan beating and to leave poor Jim Tressel alone. I'm sure they'd see how right you are and that all that other stuff, like 1-6 against top 5 teams and three straight BCS embarrassments are unfair criticisms.
Oh and for what it's worth, I fly my Buckeye flag, literally, every weekend of the season from my house right here in the heart of USC Trojan country. It's easy to be a Buckeye fan in Ohio, try doing it in "hostile" territory. Believe me pal, I've endured more than my fair share of abuse and heckling from front running USC fans so I think I've earned my stripes. Furthermore I've cheered and cried along with my Buckeyes since the early days of Earle Bruce, nearly three decades now. Is that enough "true fan" credibility for you?
So I will be in Pasadena on Jan1 supporting my Buckeyes, as always … whether or not you think I deserve it.
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Jimbo,
Part of your problem is that you care too much about what the national media thinks about Ohio State and now you are drinking that Kool-Aid. So what if they don't think winning a conference title year in and year out and beating your arch rival is good enough? I mean we did fire the previous coach because we couldn't do that, and here you are on this website saying that Tressel isn't the guy, why? Because he got smacked around in a few bowl games. And what was the third embarassment in a bowl the Texas game? No that wasn't an embarrasment, we played hard and easily could have come away with the win.
That being said we didn't which I am sure you can't wait to point out, so if we win the Rose Bowl will you shut up? Will you agree that maybe Jim Tressel can coach, or will you still want the man fired because he isn't winning a national championship every year? If you asked a thousand OSU fans if they are happy with the football program, I bet 85% or more would say yes, and they are EXACTLY right. This is a great time to be an Ohio State fan; BCS bowls, hammering our rival, winning the conference every year, and being a National title contender almost every single year, yet you and BigM sit in your circle jerk and claim Tressel needs fired. The win at Penn State wasn't good enough, the win against Iowa wasn't good enough, so I have no idea what will be.
You just keep listening to ESecPN for the rest of the year, I am sure they will have all of the answers for you.
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I read this post-game comment by our Mighty Fearless Leader Tressel, and it fits perfectly with the frustratingly regional point of view that you share:
"We've been blessed with great kids and a lot of luck," he said. "I told our seniors for the rest of their lives, people will ask them how they did against Michigan - not what bowls they played in."
You know what, the fans that support Tressel, which is still the majority, deserve him. I've become convinced that both sides in this failure of a relationship deserve each other.
If you're satisfied with winning a conference that has yet to progress into, oh, the 1990s, beating our "arch rivals" during seasons when they can't beat anyone but Indiana, and dismissing complete unmaskings of our program as a pretender in front of the whole nation (see curbstompings of 41-14, 35-3, etc etc) as merely being "smacked around in a few bowl games", as if that was far lower priority wise than beating a team that went 1-7 in the big ten.
And tell me how "quality" the wins against PSU and Stanzi-less Iowa (in OT!) are after they both get blown up in their bowl games. Everyone in the BIg Ten is a pretender coasting on past reputations and an ingrained sense of self-worth that hasn't been justified in years. If we only measure ourselves by these sad-sack programs, and not the elites of the CFB world, we will never be anything more than a regional bully. Which seems perfectly swell with you and your ilk.
This is the most frustrating part of this whole Jim Tressel fiasco. Not that he's a completely inept football strategist who can't adjust mid-game and can't coach an offense beyond the stone age, or that he never ever takes the blame for defeats big and small, (all we get is the same shitty "we played hard" spiel), no, the worse part is that ALL OF OUR FANS choose to think like him as well.
Psh, who needs "national relevance" or other such "Kool-Aid"s when we have our petty little 1-75 rivalry with a school that couldn't even beat 2 Big ten teams.
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You deserve a coach like JT, you're obviously THRILLED in your panties at how he's doing, so why dont you just make like a wolverine and scamper your content little self out of here. If its SUCH A GREAT TIME to be an osu fan, don't you have better things to do than arguing on a board with "bitter, UNtrue fans" like us?
Leave me alone in my misery as i contemplate the reality that we'll most likely have to play oregon's nuclear powered offense, which we have 1. no chance of stopping and 2. no chance of outscoring.
Go enjoy your Big Ten Title.
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Jimbo, I do value your opinion by the way. You always have good things to say we just disagree on a major point.
Ok. With that being said Damien believe me bud I will leave you alone. You sound like a dumb ass and I wouldn't want to attach myself to that. So please go hide somewhere you clown.
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Why should i go hide? this site is called "Fire Jim Tressel" in case you haven't read. Its right up there, in big letters.
You're the one that needs to take your troll act somewhere else and leave.
Also, I noted that you didn't refute one thing that i said, but merely insulted me personally again by calling me a "dumb ass".
If you can't argue that the Big Ten is weak, that winning it is meaningless for a program of our magnitude, that Michigan is horrendous and serves as a poor measuring stick, that Tressel has a long and painful history of being outcoached in big games, then you're obviously just being the kid who plugs their fingers in their ear and screams "la la la" to themselves, while calling people "dumb asses" without stating why.
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First...Jimbo, god bless ya, you have the patience of a saint. Good post, and great job sharing that article of the "thorny victory".
Second, YSUbuckeye...I'm not as patient. Your post is funny and exhausting at the same time, it's funny because you talk about the "national media kool-aid", but you're pouring more of the "Tressel Kool-Aid" than anyone I've ever seen.
I read over you post several times looking for you key arguments to debate, and I really can't find any...it's just "Tressel Kool-Aid". But, your main premise seems to be, "BCS Bowls, Beating Michigan, Winning the Big10, and playing for some national championship games".
#1- BCS Bowls: Have you checked our record for the past 6 years against better ranked teams? We're winless, that's not a positive, wohoo. Cooper made it to all kinds of bowl games too, so what?
#2- Beating Michigan: Who hasn't lately? Appalachain State, Toledo, Utah, Northwestern, and Notre Dame all did the last couple years (among others). What's your point?
#3- Winning the Big10 - yes, that's AWESOME for the player. But, outside of the Big10 campuses and your mom's basement, who really gives a CRAP about the Big10 title this year????? And no, we don't feel that way because ESPN "brainwashed" us.
#4- Playing for national title games. Yes, that is a positive. Except, when you get embarrased by the score, poor game planning, preparation, discipline, and execution. When that happens, it becomes both a positive and a negative, sorry to be realistic.
Conclusion: You can mock us for pointing out the flaws of Tress & his program, we don't really care. But, you need to bring something stronger than "Most of the fans want Tressel as coach" for your primary reasoning, that's 2nd grade material buddy. If you wanna know what our reasons are, read the damn blog and comments, you'll find them there.
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YSUBuckeye - well, you certainly kicked the hornets nest! Thank you for your comments, unfortunately you either missed the point I/We make here or you intentionally sidestep it. Additionally, you still haven't answered my questions about what makes a true fan. I would honestly like to hear it. Some previous posters have made some great points so I will avoid rehashing them but I would like to highlight a couple of things for your benefit.
You're right, I do care about what the national media has to say because it tends to be an honest assessment of the Buckeyes as compared to a self-serving back-slapper piece from say, The Columbus Dispatch. I'm sure you'd agree that it's better to know the truth than surround yourself with a bunch of lackeys who tell you how great you are despite obvious clues to the contrary. I think damien said it best earlier.. the national media are the folks who vote in the polls, the one's that count. If they view the Buckeyes as little more than a regional bully and not a nationally prominent program, their votes and opinions will factor far greater than what the good people of Ohio think.
Further, if you've followed CFB for any period of time, you'd know that the reputation of a program can be both a positive and negative and it can have lasting effects. It won't take much more for the good name of the Buckeyes to become mud in the eyes of the fans and voters and for it to stay that way for quite some time; sadly, I would say we may already be there. That's what worries those of us here and why we advocate for change. If Tressel won't change then he must go.
After all of the Buckeyes high profile embarrassments, the truth is, given the choice, the BCS committee would likely take a one loss SEC or B12 team over an undefeated Ohio State in any BCS game much less a NT game. You're right, next year's team may be damn good, good enough to fight for a title, but they may not get that chance if the AP/ESPN Today pollsters have anything to say about it.
I've never once heard Jim Tressel take responsibility for a loss instead offering up banal platitudes like "we played hard" or "we just have to get better". Ya think? To me that is a window to his soul, his comments are like his game calling, unimaginative and weak. Tressel gets out-coached in big games because the opposing coach knows what he's gonna do in any given situation so they plan for it accordingly. Some USC player said it after this year's loss, "they didn't give us anything we hadn't seen on film already".
Finally, I'm not some miscreant who wants the Buckeyes to lose, far from it, and I think I've been more than clear about it from the start. I want the Buckeyes to win every game. I'd be thrilled with a Rose Bowl win. Will I be satisfied and shut up? Nope. Because it will likely be another ugly win, ala Tresselball. I'd ask you that question in reverse. If we lose the Rose Bowl will you join us?
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Well, we should care about what the national media thinks, seeing as though the media helps select who plays for the national championship. The Buckeyes will have a national championship caliber team next year, but we're getting to the point where they'll take a one loss SEC, BIG 12, or USC team over an undefeated Ohio St team. Even though they won the Big Ten title they're only ranked tenth behind TCU, Cincinnati, and Boise St. After that amazing 2002 season, who would've thought that in 7 years these teams would be considered better than Ohio St. Hell who would've ever thought that there would be a time when Ohio St. wasn't the best college football team in the state of Ohio. There are 2 points I'm trying to make, one is that this is how low the Big Ten has sunk in the minds of everyone that is not part of the Big Ten faithful. The other one is that times are changing, and if you're not willing to change with them then you're gonna get left in the dust. Especially if Cincinnati starts taking in-state recruits away. The Buckeyes lost to the third best team in the PAC 10 at home this year because the coach was not willing to make changes in his play calling. I don't think anyone here wants them to lose in the Rose Bowl. And I think everyone here would be jumping with joy if they won a national championship next year with Tressel. But you have to look at it from a realistic viewpoint. Do we have the talent to win the Rose Bowl? Yes. Will we win the Rose Bowl? Probably not. Do we have the talent to win the national championship next year? Yes. Will we win the national championship next year? Probably not. I don't necessarily want Tressel gone, but things need to change if the Buckeyes are going to get the respect they deserve.
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Not to belabor the point but here is what I believe is possible for the Ohio State Buckeyes: See if you can guess who this coach is and what program.
Born in Toledo, lived in Ashtabula, Ohio.
Played college football at the University of Cincinnati.
Earned Masters Degree at the Ohio State University. Assistant Coach - Ohio State
Head Coach of current program since 2005.
Record with this school: 55-9 (94-17 lifetime)
Bowl Record since 2005: 5-1
Two National Championships
I know, pretty obvious ... Urban Meyer. He's also got his team lined up for yet another National Championship, if successful that would be 3 NT's in 5 years!
So tell me why is it an Ohio boy who grew up and coached in Buckeye country and reportedly carries a buckeye in his pocket for good luck, can accomplish such lofty goals? Is it luck? Does Florida grow better football players than Ohio? Or is it maybe that he knows something about winning football games in the modern game? I think it's safe to say Urban Meyer's success isn't a fluke and it's probable his teams will continue to have unparalleled success. Why can't we expect this kind of success at Ohio State? Why should we be satisfied with Big10 titles and 5 straight victories against a hapless rival? You think that's all they care about at Florida or Texas?
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Whoops! Typo. I meant to say overall bowl record but goofed and said since 2005 ... which of course isn't possible! My bad.
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I got it if we do not agree Tressell is an unworthy coach, we should not post here. The possible thought that we should fire a coach that has gone to the most BCS games and won more than he has lost is not a good conclusion. My mistake that we had an opinion. It is only such if we agree with the web site and if we bring any other idea we must not be worthy. I am not going away. You need to prove your idea as much as I am mine. I will never say Tressell is the greatest, but he plays to his strengths, defense. I will wait to see what happens in the Rose Bowl to determine if he is incorrect.
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ok--your fine with tress--but I'm not and it's ok to discuss why! tress is "old school" and due to talent level he makes the bucks a good team, but prevents them from being a GREAT team: proof: defense will not win big games when left on the field all day due to boring "old school" offense that no other defense fears---usc proved that--and so did purdue--our offense was so basic & bad--turnovers etc., our D was on the field all day and we lost to a 1 & 5 team----iowa--what more proof do you want!--they have a freshman QB--we are up 7 points with 10 minutes and have the ball on their 45--a perfect chance to "play to win" and score some points---tress runs into the line every play and we make 1 first down--we eat 2 minutes off the clock and we're not even in field goal range--not 1 play action pass or run/pass option with pryor--NOTHING CREATIVE--**of course we punt and play D as tress planned and TOTALLY in-line with your IDEA--IOWA comes back with a quick creative passing game--against our great but tired defense--(tress's strength as you say)--and they tie the game--did we try to move the ball into field goal range with 2+ minutes to win the game?---NO--did iowa try to win with 1 minute--NO--(sound like the big 10)--YES--would a great team have moved into field goal range with 2+ minutes---YES---(so we got lucky in OT)--the D did make a big play to prevent an iowa field goal--then we made the usual 2 yards required by tress and "risked"-- but made a much longer field goal than we should have had to kick---ok--so wait for the rose bowl--wait until our D is on the field all day against a great offense--then tell me what you think of tress's "old school" offense---GO BUCKS!
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